"I think that coffee is mine...wanna make out? " My own experience with a wife chaperone

Last night a friend sent me an article about a powerful man who has a standard of only dining with a woman who is not his wife if his wife is also present. Maybe you have read the article, or have heard people discussing it. It was a pretty popular one (shocking fact: my mother had no clue what I was talking about).  My blog is not a political one, and I would enjoy mostly keeping it that way. The article was in no way shocking to me. I had heard and practiced all of these things before... back when I was in a cult.


Several months ago, the new Pastor of my parents' church texted me asking if I would have coffee with him and his wife the next time I was in town. I asked if my writings against his church had prompted this, but he said no, and he had committed not to read my blog. He said that he wanted to be able to "love on" my parents, and to do his best at loving on them, he wanted to get to know the whole family so that he could understand them (heavy sigh, eye roll). I personally hate the expression "love on". It sounds like you have a very excited dog on your leg. We texted back and forth a bit over times and plans, and he assured me that he would not attempt to convert me or lure me back to that church. I assured him that I was not worried. The only reason that I agreed to the meeting was that I like when blogs write themselves.

A few days later, my mother informed me that her Pastor had told her he was in deep prayer about our coffee meeting because he wanted to ask me not to write anything about it on social media. I told her that I would not agree to those terms. I figured that he wanted to try to prevent me from talking my sister out of leaving the church and that was the point of the meeting. I had no desire to meet him if I would reap no benefit other than a free coffee. He later decided to "give the issue to God" and trust that I would make the right choice about my writings, and kept the plan to meet.

I went to Starbucks (before most of the church was boycotting them for hiring LGBTQ+ people) to meet the Pastor and his wife, with an honestly pleasant attitude, and the babies in the stroller. As soon as I walked in the door, someone from behind me began rubbing my back/trying to hug me, and I came very close to throwing a punch. It was his wife. I asked her what made her think it was acceptable to touch someone she had never met? She said that she knew it was me. I did not find that answer acceptable and explained the intent behind the signs on the stroller (that is in a past post).  His wife assured me that she also wanted to get to know me, but she would let her husband and I talk, she was there to be a silent partner. I told her she could talk all she wanted, I was meeting them both.

Although the church is not part of ATI, their foundation is pretty similar. Below are pictures from one of Bill Gothard's text books, noting the verses often used when "instructing" men not to be seen with women other than their wives, and to make sure that if they must be near another woman, that she is sure it is not a date.

Once the Pastor had brought the coffees to the table and prayed about our fellowship, he took a sip of one. He soon realized that he had sipped the one I had ordered. I said that I didn't mind the mistake, and to please pass me my coffee. He and his wife looked stunned. He offered to buy me a new one and discard the one he had sipped, but that seemed horribly wasteful to me. I asked several times for him to pass me the coffee. His wife was surprised that I would drink it after HER husband had had his mouth on it! I got a new lid so they would chill out, but I finally asked him if he had AIDS, because unless he had a disease, I didn't care. They figured that I must be used to a lot because of my job. False. I know that drinking from the same beverage is not the same as tonsil hockey. Maybe that's why Baptists don't share the Communion cup and everyone gets their own. (I also assume he has never donated blood, because he said this was the first time anyone asked if he had AIDS.) 

After several minutes of chit chat, I asked what he wanted from this meeting. He said he only wanted to get to know me. He wanted to know about my job, my life, etc.  He didn't want anything from me, nor to offer me anything. Essentially, a waste of my time. He said he didn't want to know what happened in the past that hurt me at the church, it wasn't any of his business. He told me a story of some pretty crappy things that happened to him at his sending church, but said he was just sharing those with me and asked me not to write about those. I told him I don't think he understands. My writing is not about him. It is about MY healing process. I told him that because he doesn't want to know about what happened in the past, he has no idea how many nightmares I had in the weeks leading up to this meeting. I still find it strange that up to that point, he had not attempted to set up meetings with much more reachable past church members. 

Finishing a cup of coffee was a long, uncomfortable experience. I spoke to both him and his wife, but she kept directing the conversation to her husband. He reminded me that his wife was there to avoid any appearance of evil due to him having coffee with me. So I mentioned that he needn't worry. Granted my husband is the same age as this Pastor, but Dreamy Eyes is far, far more handsome, intelligent, and respectful of women than the man who had transitively kissed me via a coffee lid. But even though I had a dashingly handsome husband, and his wife was there to chaperone him, that was not the reason that I wouldn't be sleeping with him. The reason that I wouldn't be sleeping with him is because I. Didn't. Want. To. It was obvious that my spelling this out made both the Pastor and his wife uncomfortable. I don't see why it would be inappropriate to mention such a thing. That is the entire statement of bringing your wife along as a silent partner, is it not?  Should I not point out that I understand your unspoken message? Although if anymore meetings are planned at an LGBTQ+ friendly coffee house, she may need to tag along for the men's prayer meetings as well. I'll admit, I was slightly annoyed that this was the time I was out that the babies didn't need to eat. I would have loved to see how that played out, but I vowed never to spite breastfeed, so I'll never know. 

I'm all for having standards and understanding in your marriage. All marriages are different and what is right for mine may not be right for yours. Couples should be able to trust each other and be happy and comfortable. But having standards in your marriage does not have to mean that you are disrespectful to others. As a child, having your wife ever present was the norm in my world. As an adult, it is offensive to me. Inviting your wife to join and be a valued part of a discussion or meeting is vastly different than asking her to put aside her schedule because you are unable to see another woman as a person equal to yourself, but only as the potential for temptation. 

Are there really guys out there who think "Gah! If only my wife had been here I would have remembered not to grab that lady by the pussy! Ugh, better luck next time." ? 

Of course there are exceptions in different situations. When my male OB/GYN does my exam, a female nurse is always in the room (guess what? There is a nurse in the room if my OB is a female also). But there are vastly different standards for each situation. 1, My OB did not invite me there to have a conversation over coffee. 2, My OB's wife, to my knowledge, has never checked in to see what happened at my visit. 3, The nurse is present because my pants are off and his hand is literally inside of me. I'm a big fan of education, so if his wife ever did want to be there as a student or resident, by all means, come on in! That would not make me uncomfortable at all. Having his wife silently in the corner of the room to make sure his behavior is appropriate...super weird. 

If a man wants to have a meeting or discussion with me and feels that his standards would be in jeopardy were his wife not present, that tells me that you cannot set gender apart from a person. That man will never be able to convince me that he sees men and women as truly equal. This behavior does not make me think of how much he loves his wife by having her involved. Instead it makes me wonder how his behavior would change in her absence, and if there would be no change, why degrade her into a babysitter and me into a pin up girl?

If having these standards in place is meant to prevent the possible advances from either party, then his wife ought also to be present for meetings with men as well. If the man thinks this is absurd because there is no way that he would give in to the advances of a man, this only drives the point deeper that he is only concerned with protecting himself from temptation, not others.  Saying to me that you need your wife present to chaperone you, but you don't expect me to drag my husband along everywhere tells me that you don't really care if I get raped, you just want to make sure you aren't the one who does it. It tells me that if you don't trust yourself not to try to sleep with me, why should I trust you? It tells me that you will never be able to have a serious discussion with me, not only because you don't respect me enough to see me for me, but because you will never earn my respect in return. 

"A Nice Christian Man Won't Marry YOU!"

"A woman said to me 'It's legalistic when you said I can't get remarried.' I said 'Well, look at it this way; you want to marry a nice Christian man, don't you?' 'Yes I do.' 'Well, a nice Christian man won't marry you, because you're already divorced... And all the things you're looking forward to in your remarriage you're not going to get because you're not going to get a Godly man."


These are the words from Bill Gothard. Words that I have heard since I was a child. Words that have made their way into the very core of my belief system and convinced me that because of something I couldn't change, I am no longer worthy of a good marriage. I know that this is false, but I do not yet believe it to be false, and because of that, I am constantly trying not to get too attached to being Mrs Dreamy Eyes. I think there is a word for that...Oh yes. ATI refers to that as a "Stronghold". A stronghold is usually described as a damaging idea that you have allowed to remain in your mind long enough that it takes over and destroys an area of your life, and Satan is usually the culprit. But let's give credit where credit is due. Bill Gothard set up this stronghold in my mind. This has been the focus of several weeks of therapy.

He isn't just responsible for this one though. I am reminded DAILY that I need to pause and correct my way of thinking.  Here are a few examples:
When I go to feed the twins lunch I think "Oh! I can't feed them yogurt and meatballs together...wait, yes I can. That's not an actual nutritional restriction."
I have gone without my asthma meds before because I didn't come from a broken home, so the asthma must be all in my head.
Tampons don't take your virginity.
I forget to get the mail all the time because I forget that I have the authority to get it.
I hate metal hangers because Bill Gothard had a classic illustration he would use about a married couple who would fight over the metal hangers the husband would leave on the door knob, and after a while, the wife had to learn to deal with this "source of irritation" as a way that God was working in her life to help her love her husband each time she heard the "clanging hangers".
But my therapist has been asking for weeks where I got the belief that I don't deserve to be married to Dreamy Eyes. I gave her many examples ranging from the obvious unplanned marriage, to being an average height redhead with brown eyes who is constantly told that for once I'm with a guy who is way more attractive than I am, to the strict "one marriage for life" teachings of my past. She pointed out that I don't seem to miss anything that went along with the first marriage, but I am stuck on the detail that I am divorced. But today when I found this video with these words it was all summed up in 48 seconds of an evil lie that convinced me that one detail about my past would be the only way I could be defined for the rest of my life.

In a way though, he's correct. Dreamy Eyes is not a nice Christian man.

I already married a nice Christian man. We were married by a Pastor, who held a Bible. A year later, that nice Christian man left. This is not a lament, this is a fact.

I love this picture of the two of us. But I think that Bill Gothard could use it as a fitting example of our marriage. A strong man in his prime, suddenly carrying the weight of a broken woman, covered in dirt from being cast to the side of the road. (He carried me for 2 days before I got an x-ray and learned that my ankle was broken.)

Dreamy Eyes and I got married one morning in our living room, by my cousin (who is a woman). He was wearing the same thing he was wearing the day I met him, because as soon as he kissed the bride, he went off to work a double shift to prepare to care for his family.
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

He is the kind of guy who will jump on a plane because his friend 1,000 miles away needs help.
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

He took forever to get his application for medical school perfect because he didn't want to brag about himself. He doesn't think that running marathons or building houses for the homeless is anything special.
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

He wakes up early so that he can see the girls and climb in the giant bed for family snuggle time.
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

He loves his parents and talks to them almost every day. He loves how they raised him and he wants to mirror their marriage.
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

It was extremely important to me to breastfeed the twins. It ended up being much, much more difficult that I had anticipated, but he sat with me, rubbed my feet or my neck, read to me, researched, and did everything in his power to help make it happen. They wouldn't have been breastfed if not for him.
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

He is trying to figure out the best way to help our girls grow into the strongest women they can be.
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

His mother says that when he was a toddler and she was babysitting a smaller baby, Dreamy Eyes gave the baby his pacifier because "He needed it more", and that's how he quit his pacifier.
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

He leaves me notes on the mirror and my hair brush telling me how pretty I look that day. He either refers to me as "Beautiful" or "Gorgeous" every day. It is rare that he actually calls me "Heather".
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

He has an unfathomable amount of school work to do, yet he still manages to have a job, do dishes, laundry, cook, build forts, change diapers, and read bedtime stories.
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

When we are walking in a parking lot or on a sidewalk, he always has to be on the outside, so he can protect me.
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

His shoulders flex when I tell him a story of something upsetting from my past because it annoys him that he couldn't protect me from that.
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

When he was young and his sister got all her stuffed toys taken away as punishment, he gave her all of his toys to cuddle so she wouldn't be sad.
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

He has many close female, platonic friends. I was one of them for years. I think they would all agree with me that they have never felt anything but safe when around Dreamy Eyes. He'd never think of pressing his advantage.
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

Dreamy Eyes is very, very smart. He is constantly reading and cannot rest until he knows why and how something works the way it does. When I (or anyone) find out something that he thought was obvious knowledge, he doesn't make me feel like an idiot, he gets excited about learning and says "And look what else..."
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

From beers to birth, he has been by my side, and often much closer, at the very worst, most disgusting parts of my life, and not once has he even pretended to mind. He just says "I'm washable" and "You know how I feel about helping."
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

He has arrived late to an event, covered in blood after (off duty) helping someone who was struck by a car. He spends his free time and breaks at volunteer clinics and similar programs.
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

He is extremely supportive of my goals, whether it be nursing school, sleep training, or decluttering, he is constantly telling me "Strong work!" and doing anything he can to assist me in my pursuit.
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

He doesn't like to go out to eat. I do. If we go on a trip, he packs a "fancy shirt" so that he can take me out to dinner. At home he gets food and dessert that I love and we have "spouse dates" in the other room after the babies go to bed.
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

Every day he puts the needs of his family far above his own. I don't envy him, but I love him.
But a nice Christian man won't marry me.

He isn't a nice Christian man (although his mother is still praying pretty fervently). He is the greatest, most kind, wonderful man I have ever known. I now know that I don't need to see that picture in that ATI sense. I can look at it and see a strong man in his prime, who takes care of those he cares about. A man who takes on more than is asked of him, putting aside his own agenda in order to help heal, protect, and enrich those who need him the most. With forearms like a damn Disney prince.


Note: I didn't publish this a few days ago when I wrote it because I was annoyed at Dreamy Eyes that day. I should have published it anyway. This isn't about stroking his ego. It's about tearing down the strongholds in my mind so that I can stop the nightmares and the torment that comes from years of believing harmful lies.

I've got to stop joining these damn cults!

I used to wonder how my parents (mostly my mother) could get to the point where they thought "You know what? Let's join a cult! That will be good for the kids!". It didn't phase me so much at first because it was mostly all I knew. I had never been in "the real world", but they had been! They both went to public school and my mom went to a 4 year, well known university. Yet all of a sudden, they were in a world of Bible thumping, non-recycling, sack wearing extremists who never played outside. Or was is really sudden? That's the thing with cults. They are sneaky. Plus, last night my mother told me that during one of the first seminars she attended, they specifically explained to everyone that they are NOT a cult. So, you know, absolutely believe them.

My life has changed so much in this past year. I feel like so many of us have felt like reevaluating our social circles and our lives after the endless battles over current events. I got slightly lucky, it was easy for me to clear out my social circles a bit. I went from working full time and hating anyone who called 911 if they weren't actively dying, to working about 24 hours a month and spending the rest of my time raising my twins. I got to pick up and move to a new State, to a house on a river bank, and kiss future Dr Dreamy Eyes every day before school whilst sipping the coffee that he made for me, out of the mug that matches my mood. I now seldomly have to work with people I don't like, and even if I do, it's only for a few hours. I'm better at my job, because I no longer feel burnt out. I got to move away and mostly start over, but keep the parts of my life that I liked. I love my current situation. But I need to be wary...

I have found that I tend to find a new idea or way of life that I think may be helpful, and then follow the engrained "Whatsoever ye do, do it whole heartedly..." concept, and rapidly become engrossed instead of improved. In ATI, this type of behavior is called "conviction", and is highly encouraged. We tended to have waves of conviction through our house growing up when my father would decide to rid the house of all movies after hearing one sermon about Hollywood. Often he would cut up all of his credit cards at the altar without thinking about the concept of a credit score being based on your longest active card, and then would hurt himself later by needing to apply all over again. Unfortunately, I now see that I have learned that cult-joining extremism.

Reading a book about climate change started out inspiring me to cut down on water usage and hang my laundry instead of using the dryer everyday, which is great. But then it spiraled into walking to the grocery store and back with way too many bags and gallons of milk in the stroller because I didn't feel worthy to use fuel. ATI is big on none of us (humans, but especially women) being worthy of anything, so my life has just been one giant snowball of unworthiness (Think back to the top sheet post).

I have been listening to some podcasts about minimalism, and quickly saw the potential to be drawn into more extreme behavior if I didn't watch out. I discovered that there were many different sources from which I could draw my ideals for a happy life, without slipping into what could easily become cult behavior. I love the concept of minimalism, but I have no desire to live out of a single bag and sit on one chair in an otherwise unfurnished house. I started to worry that if I got rid of everything, that all I would be doing is setting my girls up to overcompensate and become hoarders as adults because I wouldn't let them have things as kids. I want to focus more on not screwing up my kids and less on not having them be screw ups, which is the opposite of ATI's plan.

After I moved and had most of my contact with friends via social media I started to grow more and more stressed each time I looked at my phone. It wasn't just the political issues. It was everything. I joined a few online groups and forums of moms of multiples, and breastfeeding moms, but that was the complete opposite of support for me. "Mom wars" are vicious. I personally will not use a cover when feeding my babies, but if another mom wants to, so be it. This is unacceptable in mom wars.  Can't we just make a deal that I won't feed your kid French fries if you keep your loud mouth shut while mine are trying to nap?! Moms will fight other moms about EVERYTHING! From baby wipe warmers and store bought baby food, to birth plans and baby wearing, whatever it is, be sure that someone is out there waiting to tell you that you are doing it wrong. It didn't take me long to get overwhelmed by this. I left all of the groups (even the tag sale groups were crazy! I got a message from some guy telling me that he just wanted to let me know, it was bad luck to sell my wedding dress. He seemed very confused at my hostile, profane response, and then I noticed that he had sent his message months prior, and probably had no idea why he was being called so many names by a stranger).


I started thinking that it would be fantastic if I could just exist in a world where everyone wanted to raise their kids the same way, and could just agree with my world views. What a happy utopia of vaccinated, breastfed AND Gerber fed kids, who all slept in their own beds, and had a positive body image we could create! I immediately started scrolling through my Facebook friends list to see who had to go. Those who were ruining my happy place.
Then, mid-choice to delete every social media outlet and think that maybe the Amish had something going there, the rhema (see that? ATI word usage right there.) came to me that I was falling into the same trap! I called my mother and told her that I was terrified. I was becoming her. I realized that joining a cult was really just her failed attempt at getting people to stop giving her shit! Bill Gothard, the founder and leader of ATI is a very smooth talker who makes a lot of promises. At first, the idea of raising kids who are a parent's "dream" as teenagers, who don't get into trouble seems like a great goal. Most people want their kids not to be jerks, and not end up making the mistakes they made. So, maybe she didn't see it coming when she signed us up for a future of encouraged abuse?

People ask me all the time how my parents could have joined something like this. My father will need a post all his own, but my mother is tricky to explain. I feel like she is both a victim and offender in this situation. Just as I thought it would be more pleasant to surround myself with people who think like I do, she found a world where most of the women were married to dominating, abusive, power-hungry fools, whom they refused to divorce, and figured she would fit right in! I am not sympathetic to the situation, but I can follow the... logic.

I say that she is both victim and offender because even after seeing that this world may not be the best way to raise a kid, she still stayed. Trapped, yet holding us captive at the same time. Martyrdom is held in high regard in ATI, so the more she is abused and submits, the better she looks. After lots of therapy, I am desperately trying to curtail my own  circuitous behavior of happily remaining a victim. I honestly don't think my parents fully understand how bad ATI was/is. They don't think that the concepts that brainwashed us were detrimental to our well-being. My mother said today that I didn't really know it was bad either until I went out to the training center in Oklahoma and fully experienced it, that the stuff we did until then was fine, and I wasn't messed up before that. I was. I just didn't know it. The home based damage was much more subtle, but got in much deeper. Some things I don't even realize are not normal until I mention them in therapy now!

My mother will admit that it was a cult, but I'm pretty sure that my family still just thinks I'm bitter and backslidden about the world that they are still a part of. That's another thing about cults, you can only save yourself. You can't rescue people who don't want to be rescued.