Several months ago, the new Pastor of my parents' church texted me asking if I would have coffee with him and his wife the next time I was in town. I asked if my writings against his church had prompted this, but he said no, and he had committed not to read my blog. He said that he wanted to be able to "love on" my parents, and to do his best at loving on them, he wanted to get to know the whole family so that he could understand them (heavy sigh, eye roll). I personally hate the expression "love on". It sounds like you have a very excited dog on your leg. We texted back and forth a bit over times and plans, and he assured me that he would not attempt to convert me or lure me back to that church. I assured him that I was not worried. The only reason that I agreed to the meeting was that I like when blogs write themselves.
A few days later, my mother informed me that her Pastor had told her he was in deep prayer about our coffee meeting because he wanted to ask me not to write anything about it on social media. I told her that I would not agree to those terms. I figured that he wanted to try to prevent me from talking my sister out of leaving the church and that was the point of the meeting. I had no desire to meet him if I would reap no benefit other than a free coffee. He later decided to "give the issue to God" and trust that I would make the right choice about my writings, and kept the plan to meet.
I went to Starbucks (before most of the church was boycotting them for hiring LGBTQ+ people) to meet the Pastor and his wife, with an honestly pleasant attitude, and the babies in the stroller. As soon as I walked in the door, someone from behind me began rubbing my back/trying to hug me, and I came very close to throwing a punch. It was his wife. I asked her what made her think it was acceptable to touch someone she had never met? She said that she knew it was me. I did not find that answer acceptable and explained the intent behind the signs on the stroller (that is in a past post). His wife assured me that she also wanted to get to know me, but she would let her husband and I talk, she was there to be a silent partner. I told her she could talk all she wanted, I was meeting them both.
Although the church is not part of ATI, their foundation is pretty similar. Below are pictures from one of Bill Gothard's text books, noting the verses often used when "instructing" men not to be seen with women other than their wives, and to make sure that if they must be near another woman, that she is sure it is not a date.
Once the Pastor had brought the coffees to the table and prayed about our fellowship, he took a sip of one. He soon realized that he had sipped the one I had ordered. I said that I didn't mind the mistake, and to please pass me my coffee. He and his wife looked stunned. He offered to buy me a new one and discard the one he had sipped, but that seemed horribly wasteful to me. I asked several times for him to pass me the coffee. His wife was surprised that I would drink it after HER husband had had his mouth on it! I got a new lid so they would chill out, but I finally asked him if he had AIDS, because unless he had a disease, I didn't care. They figured that I must be used to a lot because of my job. False. I know that drinking from the same beverage is not the same as tonsil hockey. Maybe that's why Baptists don't share the Communion cup and everyone gets their own. (I also assume he has never donated blood, because he said this was the first time anyone asked if he had AIDS.)
After several minutes of chit chat, I asked what he wanted from this meeting. He said he only wanted to get to know me. He wanted to know about my job, my life, etc. He didn't want anything from me, nor to offer me anything. Essentially, a waste of my time. He said he didn't want to know what happened in the past that hurt me at the church, it wasn't any of his business. He told me a story of some pretty crappy things that happened to him at his sending church, but said he was just sharing those with me and asked me not to write about those. I told him I don't think he understands. My writing is not about him. It is about MY healing process. I told him that because he doesn't want to know about what happened in the past, he has no idea how many nightmares I had in the weeks leading up to this meeting. I still find it strange that up to that point, he had not attempted to set up meetings with much more reachable past church members.
Finishing a cup of coffee was a long, uncomfortable experience. I spoke to both him and his wife, but she kept directing the conversation to her husband. He reminded me that his wife was there to avoid any appearance of evil due to him having coffee with me. So I mentioned that he needn't worry. Granted my husband is the same age as this Pastor, but Dreamy Eyes is far, far more handsome, intelligent, and respectful of women than the man who had transitively kissed me via a coffee lid. But even though I had a dashingly handsome husband, and his wife was there to chaperone him, that was not the reason that I wouldn't be sleeping with him. The reason that I wouldn't be sleeping with him is because I. Didn't. Want. To. It was obvious that my spelling this out made both the Pastor and his wife uncomfortable. I don't see why it would be inappropriate to mention such a thing. That is the entire statement of bringing your wife along as a silent partner, is it not? Should I not point out that I understand your unspoken message? Although if anymore meetings are planned at an LGBTQ+ friendly coffee house, she may need to tag along for the men's prayer meetings as well. I'll admit, I was slightly annoyed that this was the time I was out that the babies didn't need to eat. I would have loved to see how that played out, but I vowed never to spite breastfeed, so I'll never know.
I'm all for having standards and understanding in your marriage. All marriages are different and what is right for mine may not be right for yours. Couples should be able to trust each other and be happy and comfortable. But having standards in your marriage does not have to mean that you are disrespectful to others. As a child, having your wife ever present was the norm in my world. As an adult, it is offensive to me. Inviting your wife to join and be a valued part of a discussion or meeting is vastly different than asking her to put aside her schedule because you are unable to see another woman as a person equal to yourself, but only as the potential for temptation.
Are there really guys out there who think "Gah! If only my wife had been here I would have remembered not to grab that lady by the pussy! Ugh, better luck next time." ?
Of course there are exceptions in different situations. When my male OB/GYN does my exam, a female nurse is always in the room (guess what? There is a nurse in the room if my OB is a female also). But there are vastly different standards for each situation. 1, My OB did not invite me there to have a conversation over coffee. 2, My OB's wife, to my knowledge, has never checked in to see what happened at my visit. 3, The nurse is present because my pants are off and his hand is literally inside of me. I'm a big fan of education, so if his wife ever did want to be there as a student or resident, by all means, come on in! That would not make me uncomfortable at all. Having his wife silently in the corner of the room to make sure his behavior is appropriate...super weird.
If a man wants to have a meeting or discussion with me and feels that his standards would be in jeopardy were his wife not present, that tells me that you cannot set gender apart from a person. That man will never be able to convince me that he sees men and women as truly equal. This behavior does not make me think of how much he loves his wife by having her involved. Instead it makes me wonder how his behavior would change in her absence, and if there would be no change, why degrade her into a babysitter and me into a pin up girl?
If having these standards in place is meant to prevent the possible advances from either party, then his wife ought also to be present for meetings with men as well. If the man thinks this is absurd because there is no way that he would give in to the advances of a man, this only drives the point deeper that he is only concerned with protecting himself from temptation, not others. Saying to me that you need your wife present to chaperone you, but you don't expect me to drag my husband along everywhere tells me that you don't really care if I get raped, you just want to make sure you aren't the one who does it. It tells me that if you don't trust yourself not to try to sleep with me, why should I trust you? It tells me that you will never be able to have a serious discussion with me, not only because you don't respect me enough to see me for me, but because you will never earn my respect in return.
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